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Post by jamesa on Mar 23, 2009 15:40:10 GMT
To now defend Porcupine Tree ;D
I have no doubt that I will get value for my money - Porcupine Tree always put on a great show, with all the multimedia elements (a far superior projection show to the PRR one at Dingwalls, for example), and I have never had a problem with either the setlist or the length of show - and they do tend to switch tracks around within the setlist, which makes it worth going to more than one gig.
However, they are charging the same for the Leeds gig as Dream Theatre (with Frost*), and I just do not think they are (yet) in the same bracket as Dream Theatre. (although I do not mean that from a musical point of view, as Porcupine Tree are by far my favourite band)
I think the price is coming as a bit of a surprise to fans, who maybe would have expected it to go to £25 rather than £30...
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Post by blondeambassador on Mar 23, 2009 15:46:01 GMT
To be fair, what I would add... I'm not a PT fan. I like some of their stuff and have enjoyed some of their gigs in the past. So maybe I'm not the best person to judge. What I would say however, is that in pricing it at over £30, I'm not going. Had it been £20 odd, I probably would have done, so certainly if I'm anything to go by, they are pricing it so that it'll put people who are teetering on the edge of being a PT 'fan' as such off going to the gigs.
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Post by jamesa on Mar 23, 2009 15:51:25 GMT
And what you are saying is my biggest worry - that they find themselves playing to half-filled venues. The London tickets have been on sale for some time now and are not sold out...and I think they are ready to step up to these larger venues, but only at the right price.
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Post by ryan on Mar 23, 2009 16:03:45 GMT
I just don't think they really justify it is all.
The only production they tour with is the projector, they use in-house lights. Or till now anyway.
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Post by Lawrie on Mar 23, 2009 18:08:00 GMT
Very much take people's points about how a greater price will dissuade any 'floating voter' fans of a band who were weighing up going to see them or not - it's an excellent point to mention and one that could well have a negative impact on overall audiences for the band.
And I also appreciate that poor choices of venue (all seaters in this case, or whatever else doesn't float your boat generally) are a good reason not to spend big money on going to see a band. Just as much as short setlists etc (which some bands can't help, admittedly, but then you'd expect them to charge cheaper ticket prices, which the vast majority thankfully do) are good reasons not to pay silly prices to go to gigs.
All I'd say is that (IMO only, wouldn't want to say that this is the 'right' way to feel), for me I have no problems paying that kind of money to see a band that I really want to see, providing the setlist is long enough and the venue doesn't suck balls. I don't get my enjoyment from the light shows that Muse put on or the massive venues that Radiohead play: it's the bands themselves and not their tour expenses (lighting, dancing girls, projections etc) that I'm prepared to pay top whack for - and in fact for big artists like those two bad boys I'd actually be prepared to pay more to see them without all the bells and whistles in a small, intimate venue like the Oxford Zodiac (I refuse to recognise it as the Academy!) etc. [As an aside, that's just a personal preference in that I'm not into large venues or outdoor gigs really.] So if my other favourite bands like PRR or The Music or Ladytron or whoever put on a show that costs less money to produce and put on the stage, I don't have any problems paying the same as for your Radioheads etc (obviously, given my setlist length requirements being met) because I value those bands just as much as the big spenders.
I appreciate that that's not really a very sound economic basis and that smaller, cheaper-to-get-up-on-a-live-stage bands are going to have to charge less for the tickets so that their audience isn't just 2 diehards and a dog. But from my own personal point of view, I'll happily pay the bands I love the higher ticket prices providing they're playing a set I deem worthy of parting with my money for.
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Post by blondeambassador on Mar 23, 2009 18:16:10 GMT
But where does it end? Do we then all end up paying £200 a ticket for anyone who we deem to be good enough? Once you start disregarding production costs, it's a slippery slope and one that you do sometimes see getting out of hand these days, where you see particularly greedy artists exploiting is because they know that whatever they price their tickets at, there are people who will buy them.
Obviously I want the bands to make money but as someone who goes to ALOT of gigs and also quite a bit of theatre which often has similar issues, I'm very aware of the fine line between supporting bands/theatre companies, them covering their costs and 'hold on, what the hell are they doing with all that money, there better be gold plated elephants on the stage?!' But then, essentially it's part of the service industry and putting a value on a service is one of the hardest things to do, as my arts marketing module spent at least 2 weeks harping on about.
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Post by nimos on Mar 23, 2009 18:21:51 GMT
I guess it really is how much you like the band. Although I generally prefer smaller venues (better chance of getting to the front), I would agree that larger gigs tend to have better production as well.
I wouldn't say I have a limit on price; I've paid close to £50 for Muse and Radiohead in the past. £6.75 for PRR seemed like a bargain! If they ever play Wembley with a 2 hour set and a lavish production I would happily pay £100+ for a 'Gold Circle' ticket...
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Post by Lawrie on Mar 23, 2009 18:30:20 GMT
But where does it end? Do we then all end up paying £200 a ticket for anyone who we deem to be good enough? Fair play, that is absolutely something to consider. (The rest of your post was very good too, just quoted the most answerable part of it.) I suppose I'm just [once again] spouting my own opinions when discussing larger points on more generalised debates: I certainly wouldn't want to pay £200 to see ANYONE! I think the £30 that I've been going on about is a fairly arbitrary value of the kind of money I personally am prepared to pay to see my favourite bands - the biggest and most expensive bands I like charge somewhere in that ball park, and I'm happy to do the same for smaller bands I like just as much. But I'd certainly be less easy-going if tickets were £75 a pop, for a Muse or a PRR. At the end of the day, as you point out at the end of your post, it's about placing a personal value to yourself on something on a (to some degree) subjective and non-quantifiable 'product', and that is indeed going to differ from person to person. In short, can't really argue against anything you've said! ;D
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Post by jamesa on Mar 23, 2009 18:31:02 GMT
I have to be honest and say that rather than being that bothered about ticket prices, I get more concerned when someone like Metallica are charging £50 for a hooded top. It's a hooded top - I really do not care how good a quality it might be, it's still a hooded top. And I do not pay £50 for a hooded top.
I go to a lot of gigs at a lot of different venues and remain pleasantly pleased at how many of them still cost me less than £10. The one thing that will always annoy me with the 'cost' of a ticket is how much then gets added on in booking fees and other extras.
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Post by Lawrie on Mar 23, 2009 18:33:22 GMT
The one thing that will always annoy me with the 'cost' of a ticket is how much then gets added on in booking fees and other extras. If you can find a single person to disagree with this part of your post, then I think that the only explanation could be that we have a shareholder in Ticketmaster on these boards!
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Post by blondeambassador on Mar 23, 2009 18:35:36 GMT
I disagree, with nimos that is, since you've all gone and posted while I've been typing! You all know how much I love PRR and yes, I guess I WOULD pay silly prices to see them if I really had to. But I'd be very angry at them and it would leave me feeling pretty dissatisfied.
Just like I adore Radiohead but I was loathed to pay £50 for Victoria Park last year and won't be doing it again in a hurry. I just don't have £50 a time to go throwing around I guess is what annoys me about it. It's alright for people who go to one or two gigs a year but when you go all the time, once the prices start getting silly, you just can't do it. It doesn't lend itself to music fans, you can't sit there and say 'well it depends how much you like a band' if you literally don't have the money in your bank account, no matter how much you like them!
It also sets a tone. I stood in Victoria Park and you very much have a sense, when describing how good the gig was of 'yeah but was it £50 good?' If that makes sense...
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Idz
Ambassador
Jump on my pressure pill?
Posts: 21
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Post by Idz on Mar 23, 2009 18:39:29 GMT
^ yup, makes sense I really want to see them in Leeds, but I have no-one to go with as no-one has even heard of the band where I live. My sister might come with me if I went, but she doesn't know them either. Plus Leeds is very far from where I live; I hope I'll pass my driving test soon...
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Post by jamesa on Mar 23, 2009 18:41:35 GMT
^ yup, makes sense I really want to see them in Leeds, but I have no-one to go with as no-one has even heard of the band where I live. My sister might come with me if I went, but she doesn't know them either. Plus Leeds is very far from where I live; I hope I'll pass my driving test soon... You might want to wait, because I am sure they will announce other dates - the ones so far cannot be the full extent of this tour...so you might get one closer to you.
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Idz
Ambassador
Jump on my pressure pill?
Posts: 21
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Post by Idz on Mar 23, 2009 18:44:04 GMT
^ ok! Cheers:) I'll hold on, hopefully they'll play Manchester or somewhere near.
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Post by nimos on Mar 23, 2009 18:54:57 GMT
It also sets a tone. I stood in Victoria Park and you very much have a sense, when describing how good the gig was of 'yeah but was it £50 good?' If that makes sense... Yeah, higher price definitely = higher expectations. Although, for me, that gig WAS almost £50 good (managed to get a great spot near the front). The sight of thousands of Radiohead fans taking over the streets, walking to the tube station was also quite special!
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