Digital Release? Good idea?

[blondeambassador]

So, as someone mentioned in the other thread, maybe PRR should turn to the way of releasing their material digitally and try to make money through touring and hope people are generous when downloading?

What does anyone make of that?

I think it might be a good idea to do that with a few tracks perhaps, like a free album sampler anybody can download, then a full album to be sold as normal- as much as they need to spread the word about their wonderful music, they aren't quite Radiohead and can't garuntee to sell out venues and make lots of money that way (unfortunately...!)

The apparently forthcoming single is bound to be a download isn't it? Though part of me did think it was a bit of a waste of Victorious Cupid- they should have at least taken it off their myspace and stuck it on iTunes for people to pay 79p for after a certain amount of time-whatever happened to their concept of a 'limited edition' free single, it's still there now!!

[smudger]

Just to address your last point...that's plain bad management to leave new material up on myspace. Sure, leave the old stuff there, it's almost public domain and anyway they need to put some kind of sampler up to attract new fans.
It seems to me that PRR are blinkered in their approach to marketing and publicity. Their philosophy seems to be : write tunes/record tunes/find label/ get funding to release tunes/ tour tunes/pay back funding from label. This worked until very recently (evidently up to Sony/BMG days) but everything has changed since then.
There are several good papers available on the internet regarding the 'new' band model. This basically involves making your IP (intellectual property) freely available in MP3 form, marketing and publicising via the internet and traditional methods, and then getting an income from live appearances attended (hopefully) by an audience generated by your 'giveaways'.
Now, this will benefit bands who are good performing live ( which I consider PRR are). The days of 'studio' bands are, to my mind, long gone. They went when it was no longer necessary to have the backing of a major label in order to pay for studio time and expensive producers in order to produce a tune. Of course, studio proprietors and producers are going to have a hard time of all this, but the reality is that anyone with a decent Applemac and a copy of Logic Audio (and a modicum of musicality) can turn out a professional quality recording, and, via Myspace (and other sites), can release it to the public. I'd say that's how 'VC' was produced and released. The ONLY way the band can now make money out of it is by attracting a paying audience
I'll most likely add to this as we go along, but suffice it to say that, for now, PRR and their management appear to be way behind the times

[the dark fourth]

I don't think there's any right or wrong to this issue. To get worked up over marketing methods is to miss the point. I personally am far more concerned that their soon to be released material is still of as good if not better quality as the stuff we all know and love...how they get it to us matters not.

[ryan]

I dunno, I'd rather not see that distribution method from anyone really.

[blondeambassador]

nippywallis said:

I don't think there's any right or wrong to this issue. To get worked up over marketing methods is to miss the point. I personally am far more concerned that their soon to be released material is still of as good if not better quality as the stuff we all know and love...how they get it to us matters not.

Well...yes, I can see what you're saying and I'm not getting worked up about it but I also don't think we can just hope the music is good- the music was great last time around but I just want them to have a future and to be able to continue making the music, they've got to make money out of it (at least enough to fund future recordings etc) and to do that marketing/release methods is something they've simply got to get right- and I'm not convinced they have in the past, as with the Cupid example.

Meh, only something to discuss while we wait for more news from the studio anyway, it's not like it'll matter what we all think of the issue when it comes down to it.

[the dark fourth]

Fair enough. As a matter of interest it's worth discussing but I still feel we should keep in the back of our minds what's most important about PRR...namely their awesomeness.

[smudger]

At the end of the day, it all boils down to whether or not the band wants to be a studio band and whether the punters want to just buy the recordings or go and see the band. Personally, I have always enjoyed the live act more than the recordings - of which I have every one ever made. So I don't have a problem with that, as I will buy the next release anyway, and go and see the band anyway.
The problem lies with new fans. If they don't hear the music then they may not go and see the band if they do tour. If the band sells the music then they will have to sign to a label to release it and then get the advance to tour it. If they give the music away then it's a gamble on whether fans will be attracted to the live shows.
All of this disappoints me as I want to see the band live (in Glasgow preferably) but I know there's little chance of that due to lack of exposure.
I have supported PRR for 3 years now, and every time I thought 'yeah, they're on their way' ...they come to a dead stop. I've seen them blow away Mew, HOTS, Oceansize, Halo (?) on major tours, only to fail to capitalise on their new fans. 'Awesomeness' won't put bums on seats unless it's exploited
oh bugger....we're getting back to management incompetence now.....................

[Lawrie]

smudger said:

At the end of the day, it all boils down to whether or not the band wants to be a studio band and whether the punters want to just buy the recordings or go and see the band. Personally, I have always enjoyed the live act more than the recordings - of which I have every one ever made. So I don't have a problem with that, as I will buy the next release anyway, and go and see the band anyway.
The problem lies with new fans. If they don't hear the music then they may not go and see the band if they do tour. If the band sells the music then they will have to sign to a label to release it and then get the advance to tour it. If they give the music away then it's a gamble on whether fans will be attracted to the live shows.
All of this disappoints me as I want to see the band live (in Glasgow preferably) but I know there's little chance of that due to lack of exposure.
I have supported PRR for 3 years now, and every time I thought 'yeah, they're on their way' ...they come to a dead stop. I've seen them blow away Mew, HOTS, Oceansize, Halo (?) on major tours, only to fail to capitalise on their new fans. 'Awesomeness' won't put bums on seats unless it's exploited
oh bugger....we're getting back to management incompetence now.....................

[/color][/quote]
I can't tell you how much I agree and empathise with the part of your post I've highlighted. *applauds*

[blondeambassador]

Agreed! I guess thats why we all worry about things like release formats, where they're playing and things, things fans don't always necessarily worry about- it's because I'm worried that the aforementioned 'awesomeness' will go essentially unknown and that would be SUCH a huge shame.

[the dark fourth]

I have lived all my life being obsessed with bands that no one I knew had even heard of. What provides me with constant cheer is that there are, even if you haven't met them, always plenty of other people who are as obsessed as you are, who like all the same things about the band that you do, and who are generally able to see the brilliance that so many people simply fail to spot. They may not be as numerous (or as half-hearted) as the fans of 'big' bands, but they're there, and they make themselves heard.

I didn't even know of PRR's existence till about a year ago, which is terribly, terribly sad for me. I desperately wish I'd been with all you guys when they were starting out, and had been to all their tours etc etc. But I really don't blame this on bad publicity or poor marketting. I blame it on the lack of musical justice in the world; that good bands generally don't get big. This I am fully, if sadly, resigned to. But it is an essential point - that there probably aren't all that many people out there who would become converts if they were only able to hear the music. Almost everyone who's a likely PRR fan will be trawling the prog rock scene for bands like this anyway (that's how I found them).

I don't think if PRR were suddenly marketted 'properly' they would get hoards of fans automatically. I think they should let fans come to them, not vice versa. That way the fans are real fans, and they have more time to concentrate on doing the music bit as well as they can. Obviously, months of absolutely no activity (like we have at the mo) are a bad idea in every respect, but I think in the reincarnation we are about to witness music should be put first and marketting a definite second. More fans are of course a good thing, but I don't thing the gains PRR would make by investing everything in business planning would really be very substantial. I know many will disagree, but in my experience there is surprisingly little difference that can be made to brilliant and obscure bands' fan bases.

[Lawrie]

nippywallis said:

I have lived all my life being obsessed with bands that no one I knew had even heard of. What provides me with constant cheer is that there are, even if you haven't met them, always plenty of other people who are as obsessed as you are, who like all the same things about the band that you do, and who are generally able to see the brilliance that so many people simply fail to spot. They may not be as numerous (or as half-hearted) as the fans of 'big' bands, but they're there, and they make themselves heard.

I didn't even know of PRR's existence till about a year ago, which is terribly, terribly sad for me. I desperately wish I'd been with all you guys when they were starting out, and had been to all their tours etc etc. But I really don't blame this on bad publicity or poor marketting. I blame it on the lack of musical justice in the world; that good bands generally don't get big. This I am fully, if sadly, resigned to. But it is an essential point - that there probably aren't all that many people out there who would become converts if they were only able to hear the music. Almost everyone who's a likely PRR fan will be trawling the prog rock scene for bands like this anyway (that's how I found them).

I don't think if PRR were suddenly marketted 'properly' they would get hoards of fans automatically. I think they should let fans come to them, not vice versa. That way the fans are real fans, and they have more time to concentrate on doing the music bit as well as they can. Obviously, months of absolutely no activity (like we have at the mo) are a bad idea in every respect, but I think in the reincarnation we are about to witness music should be put first and marketting a definite second. More fans are of course a good thing, but I don't thing the gains PRR would make by investing everything in business planning would really be very substantial. I know many will disagree, but in my experience there is surprisingly little difference that can be made to brilliant and obscure bands' fan bases.

Completely agree and empathise with the parts of your post I've highlighted blue - it is indeed very comforting to know that there are other people out there who feel as passionately as I do about this band, since only one other of my mates likes PRR as much as I do, and the rest of my mates are ambivalent at best after I've lent them my CDs. *sigh*

On the other hand, I very strongly disagree with the parts of your post I've highlighted red. I really do think that PRR and their management (could apply to either or both - I don't know how much responsibility falls where for their promotion etc) could do a HELL of a lot better at making themselves known to people, and building a bigger fanbase. I take your point that the best groups often struggle to appeal to a mass market, but even for an 'alternative' group, PRR have a pitifully small fanbase IMO, and I think that it's largely (if not solely) down to poor promotion/marketing/business acumen. My favourite non-mainstream artists of recent years include acts like Ladytron, Hope Of The States, The Mars Volta, 65daysofstatic etc etc - and all of these bands have bigger fanbases and a higher music scene profile than PRR do, ranging from slightly more popular/high profile (65dos, Ladytron) to massively more popular/high profile (The Mars Volta). In my opinion, PRR are as musically accessible to Joe Public as someone like Ladytron or Hope Of The States, and much more musically accessible than the likes of The Mars Volta and 65dos. Therefore they should be appealing to a wider audience than the handful of diehards that they currently do. I firmly believe that it is not the music they make that holds them back from this (as I feel that less 'easy-to-get' bands have bigger fanbases), and therefore it must be the poor promotion and other such related stuff that is holding them back. I wish they'd get it right as well, because their music is so good (they are probably in my current top two or three bands) that it would be the most terrible shame if they were forced to stop making this brilliant music because they couldn't pay the rent or get the shopping in. From my [uninformed] outsider's viewpoint, I wish the band would treat their music and its distribution like a proper career, and that their management would pull their fingers out and make a lot more noise a lot more often about the band. I don't think that this would change or commercialise the music they're making, but simply make a lot more people aware of their stuff. Who knows, I may be being too harsh on both the band and the people around them, but that's how it seems to me. But I digress - my bottom line point is that I recognise that PRR are never going to be a Coldplay or a U2 (thank f*ck!), or even a Radiohead, but that still doesn't mean they can't be a lot bigger and sell a lot more records/gig tickets than they do now.

All IMO, be interested to hear other people's takes on what I assume is a big, horrible, hard-to-read block of text after this much typing! ;D

[sarahm]

I, like dark forth, am a recent fan. I got into them through love of there music ( I was introduced to them by my boyfriend only because he had a thing 4 chloe, so i wasnt supposed 2 like them in the 1st place!). It is not nice when u find something and it doesnt develop on 1 end. i have my fingers crossed. I have heard rumours of links w porcupine tree but cant be sure. i also saw chloes myspace & got the impression she is working on other stuff, so getting mixed messages. maybe its the waiting that makes me create theories cos i am desperate to get something from them soon. a new tune, a gig, a definite new album, aything. i think the lack of these things is linked to bad pr. if its good pr, u dont upset your fans. they might just leave you...

[the dark fourth]

Riiiiighhhht.......well I guess it falls to me to break this eiry silence in the realms of the divine...where's everyone got to? There's plenty of interesting stuff to say...like does someone else want to reply to the arguments in this thread? No one seems to have responded to my comment at the end of the Victorious Cupid thread either (which I had thought might be a little controversial...) I guess the silence of the band itself is affecting its memebers.

[sarahm]

It seems Steven Wilson is producing the new Anamthema album (never quite got into them!), so PRR may be veering away from the Prog. their myspace top friends include Justice, their last track 'deus ex machina' is v. electronic, so the electro route is now more likely. It also seems chloe has joined a new 'techno' band, the drummer paul is in another act aswell. This all suggests that the new album requires less production in form of band members. i wouldnt be surprised if it was pure electro and the band will become even smaller. what would this make of their live performance? a digital release would not surpirse me at all.

[blondeambassador]

I don't necessarily think the new album would require 'less productuion in form of band members' simply because as far as I'm aware, Jon does the vast majority of the studio production himself anyway. (I could be wrong, but I think thats the way its always worked, I mean, the studio used to be in his bedroom for a start!) But if we look at Deus live, all the band members are involved, particularly because of the vocals and they all have a synth- I can't see the live band getting any smaller, I think they are quite settled as a four piece at the moment, they seemed to be very happy at the end of their latest tours.