Dark Third Discussion and Meaning

[murphymurphy]

Well while we're waiting for the new album, I was thinking: "Why hasn't there been any thread for the Dark Third?" Seeing how it is their to date only full length released album, I'm surprised barely anybody has been talking about it.
So what is the consensus on the album's meaning. The band states that it concerns the indefinite line between dreaming and waking, and I can see how this definitely fits with the lyrics, however difficult to interpret they are. So let's talk Dark Third. Does anybody know the contents of the album? I have been deciphering it for myself, and I am stuck on the last song. I must have hit a dead end, or maybe I just need to spend some more time staring at the words, lol.
Either way, I was wondering what other's opinions of the theme and meaning of the album are. I will be posting my lengthy (no really, I've gotten about six hand written pages thus far) essay as soon as I get that final song figured out. Thanks!

[the dark fourth]

You're right we should talk about this more often. I think it's not been on the forum much cos the forum was created quite a while after the Dark Third came out, so everything on here has really been looking forward not back.

Re lyrics, I think a lot of the people who post here feel that the lyrics aren't really what makes the album good, especially as they are so indecipherable. We have had discussions about this before (take a look at one of the Victorious Cupid threads) and I've always said that the lyrics for me do have meaning, and the vocals are therefore more than just another beautiful-sounding instrument. I've never been 100% tuned-in to the whole dreams idea, although it is very inspirational nevertheless. For me, I love the lyrics because a) the little glimpses of imagery they suggest, and b) the sounds they make. Jon is brilliant at doing all this internal rhyme stuff (e.g. "behind the rhymes in the night"), and just generally making the overall sound of the words work really well. I don't think the lyrics are necessarily meant to have an overall meaning, (so good luck with decipheing it) I think they're just supposed to suggest ideas to the listener in a sort of stream-of-consciousness way. The new stuff though appears to be different; Deus lyrics seem to have some sort of coherence and even message, and are definitely a departure from the normal dream-based material.

If you're inspired by this stuff, as am I, I can only point you yet again towards Jon's own inspiration Gerard de Nerval. You'll love him.

[Lawrie]

I'm in the "I haven't got a clue what they're going on about in The Dark Third, but I sure as hell think it's a cracking album" brigade. Enjoy singing along to the strange phrases about dim penumbras and girls with black guns, but I haven't got the foggiest idea what it all means, and I'm not the sort of person to ponder too hard on figuring it out.

The Streets/Pulp/The Dears etc (i.e. artists who have relatively straightforward narratives in their lyrics, and especially when there's a sharp wit going on as well - which all those artists have) are my lyrical bag.

That said, I like The Dark Third better than any material by any of those 3 examples, aside from maybe A Grand Don't Come For Free by The Streets, which is (IMO, obviously) one of the greatest albums ever made... and even then I think that if PRR continue to develop as I expect them to, then they'll produce at least one album that sits up there in my All Time Classics list.

So yeah, I'm not very much use in this thread, am I? Just stopping in to pass the time while I try and rid myself of the worst cold anyone anywhere has ever had... who says blokes are hypochondriacs?

[hyperborean]

May 16, 2008 20:51:13 GMT Lawrie said:

So yeah, I'm not very much use in this thread, am I? Just stopping in to pass the time while I try and rid myself of the worst cold anyone anywhere has ever had... who says blokes are hypochondriacs?

Me too! Well, I think I just got rid of it with a nap and this wonderful herbal tea I got from a local whole/organic foods store this afternoon. Now I must find out what exactly was in that tea because it really did seem to do wonders.

Yeah, anyway.

I do think there is a general theme - a good mood - that is established in The Dark Third. You could call it a theme, or a mood, a conjuration of emotion, or a connection to the super-sensible... but it's there. I could write an essay on it like our friend murphy, but I think I know of a quote by a really old guy who communicates what I'm thinking of in the most precise and coherent way.

"At one time through love
all things come together into one.
At another time, through strife's hatred,
they are borne each of them apart."
- Empedocles

That is essentially his "love and strife" philosophy, that these are the super-sensible elements of the material universe. And I think The Dark Third conjurs up images of the realization of this philosophic architecture; "the dark third" could be the very apparatus of this sort of universe, where some things like love and strife remain just out of the ordinary reach, but they do remain within our grasp, on the beach, when waves meet, crash, then keep going, all simultaneously.

I had to do a video project for my Rhetoric of Vision and Sound class two semesters ago - before I had ever heard of PRR. I used the above quote in the music video my group created, along with these lines to explain the story:

"Every time we go a way,
we go farther away.

The further we look for a part,
it falls apart.

Everyone who finds it a again,
ends up looking again."

Love & strife, ying & yang - broad generalizations surely, not a bad place to start.

[the dark fourth]

May 16, 2008 23:46:12 GMT hyperborean said:

I do think there is a general theme - a good mood - that is established in The Dark Third. You could call it a theme, or a mood, a conjuration of emotion, or a connection to the super-sensible... but it's there.

Well yeah exactly. The great thing about PRR, and about all great creative artists, is that it can mean different things to different people.

[murphymurphy]

Good thoughts, all. I can see where all of you are coming from, and I definitely agree with the stream of consciousness idea (anyone ever read William Faulkner's As I Lay Dying or pretty much any of James Joyce's works? those are good examples). Well, maybe it's just that I'm a bum and I don't have anything better to do, but I began to see little connections in the album's lyrics. And sometimes, as you guys said, sometimes the lyrics don't even mean anything (as far as I know), they're just meant to set the mood, and they do an excellent job. So like I said, maybe I was just bored, but this album really piqued my interest to look for a deeper, more coherent meaning. So here it goes now before I begin, keep in mind that this is an extremely risky essay. What I mean by "risky" is that it takes some stretches in the lyrics, sometimes building off of simply one seemingly important line. And, beyond that, toward the conclusion of the album, when things begin to rapidly speed up, I have to make some leaps of faith and conclusions that are drawn by the general ideas of the album and even some of the album's bonus songs.
btw, I will probably have split this essay up over multiple posts; lol, I'm not even sure 60,000 characters is enough to carry it all. Just kidding. .... hopefully.
Obviously, this is not for the faint of heart--or those with things to get done in their daily routines, lol.
Bear in mind that this is my first "concept" album.
So.... here goes nothing.

Setting
The world (as we know it, at different times of day and night)
The dream world

Theme
A discussion of the gray line between the "awake" world and the "asleep" world; also, an exploration of the dream world

Investigation (by song (loosely))

Aeropause
I don't think there is any huge story significance to this song. I think it's just the introduction to the CD, but some may argue that there the characters fall asleep.

[Before I begin, let me say this. I think, or am almost sure, or at least have not come upon anything blatantly contrary, that this album has two main characters, a man and a woman, possibly husband and wife because of the existence of a son. But we'll get to that later.]

Goshen's Remains
I believe, first of all, that this song is told from the woman's perspective, and this is reinforced by the fact that Chloe sings this, but this fact is not something to adhere to for the entirety of the album. The woman is asleep here, and her husband (I presume) is with here, "cooling [her] so bright." The pair are basically just lying in the grass; it's a sunny day, typical dream setting; the husband is "soothing" her with his smiles; she forgets her worries here ("He leaves my needs over there"). Don't get bogged down by confusing lyrical details; I think here, and in other songs, they just want you to get the general idea or mood. Here it is that she is dreaming, and he is with her (not only in the dream, but I am also convinced that he's beside her in bed, as we'll see later). Basically, the remainder of the song emphasizes that they are dreaming and that everything is tranquil ("The skies sublime lunation" [The sky is beautifully colored, even past surreality (they're dreaming, duh!)])

Apprentice of the Universe
As the previous song painted a picture of peace, beauty, and awe, this continues the theme, I believe. However, this is a very tentative discussion, and I have no idea what "lime" means. Whatever it means though, lime dreams and limpid (absolutely serene and untroubled, according to Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary) dreams are colonizing, or gathering together. I do not think this song is told from either the woman or the man's perspective, but from a stereotypical, unbiased, omniscient narrator. He is observing the harmony and "order" between the "alliance" (the couple) and the dream world around them. However, I am unsure as to certain, seemingly important lines here, such as "she told me I had too much to dream last night."

Million Bright Ambassadors of Morning
I believe the point of view changes yet again here, heading to the man this time. He is possibly remembering a scene (btw, as I already said, the husband exists not only in her dream, but she also exists in his; they are having a communal dream) that has passed recently or long ago, more likely recently than not. Apparently he is having a little difficulty (understandably) recalling the exact scene ("It takes a minute to photograph" [to picture what happened]). He sees face of those he has seen before in the skies. Once again, I don't know the exact details, and many of the lyrics are confusing or misleading, but I think he is recalling the murder of his son ("lost son"; some may think that is would be one of those stretches I was mentioning earlier, but in fact, there are hints about the son later on in the album and in the bonus songs, especially The Twyncyn/Trembling Willows). Although it never says it right out and it is fed to you in fragments, the singer's violent intonation and lyrics ("black guns," "lion's odours," "heavenly bleeds the sun" (maybe a pun on sun and son, but that is probably stretching it)) confirm this for me. After the chorus is chanted (don't ask me how this relates to the story; I don't know), it becomes clear that the two are separating, and from the lyrics of the next song, I think he leaves her (but it's not really drastically important who leaves who; don't get caught up on details; I think the writers were purposefully vague and unclear; the point is that they are separated).

Nimos and Tambos
The viewpoint switches here to the wife again. This song is pretty pivotal, and I'm frustrated that I don't understand more of it. However, I will proceed. This takes place in the monumentally important (to the theme of the album) gray line between conscious and subconscious. The wife is very dazed and confused (shoutout to you, Zep!), and aren't we all when we first wake up? With the contrast between light and night here, it is clear that... I take that back. It's not clear... at all. I do not believe that light and night here represent literal dawn and dusk, like we would on the surface tend to believe. I think it simply returns to conscious and subconscious. To proceed. The main idea that PRR wants you to decipher here is that the husband is gone ("He left the room where I was"; this is one of the most blatant lines in the whole album, one of the very few here . I also am convinced that he left in the middle of night (for whatever reason; otherwise the next few songs wouldn't make sense.) I think the "he meant well" line has to do with her near awakening (or arrival to the gray zone) because of his "morning kiss." If you have the album lyrics handy, however, you'll note that "angels blind" near the end of the song is actually (and peculiarly until decoding) "angels. Blind": this is key. This and possibly the line before it, "nearer clouds of angels," confirm that she does in fact fall back to sleep.

Voices in Winter
Not only is this song an awesome musical leadup to an even more awesome climax, it is also pretty important to the story. As the wife returns to her dream, with the husband not physically take part in the dream this time, she sees visions reminiscent of things she has seen earlier in the album (in Apprentice and Ambassadors). This is another reason I believe that this is all taking place on the same night, because honestly, who dreams of the same thing on two consecutive nights? I know I never have. Also, I believe Nimos and Tambos' lines "Hide the light" are in line with this; she doesn't want to be awakened, as it is unlikely that she will be returned to the same dream after being awakened (we've all had this happen before: good dream, wake up, fall back to sleep, dream of something entirely different; pretty frustrating, lol, right?). Now, some of you may be saying that I just contradicted myself by saying that she was awakened and then able to return to her dream without drastic alteration to her dream. Actually, I think this is where PRR sticks in one of their key discussions again. They mean to say that she returned to the gray line, that infamous realm of confusion between dreaming and waking (at this point, PRR might also say, "Or is it the other way around?"). I'm not sure what all they mean past that, but let's continue.
So the wife dreams of meeting her father and (deceased) son. I guess that's pretty reasonable to dream of dead family members. I've never done it, but then again, I'm blessed enough to have all of my immediate family still alive. Again, "They rest in worlds sublime": they relax as before (except this time with the son instead of just remembering him). "Defeated objects on the run": they are victorious, strong as a family, and their enemies flee from them. Here, upcoming that is, is another huge point, unless I am over-analyzing (won't be the first time, lolz). If you haven't figured this out already, PRR are not huge grammar nazis by any means. So the next line, "To test the worlds divide," could be either "world's" or "worlds'," or even just "worlds." But the last doesn't really make much sense, so we'll rule that one out. I'm going to go with the second one, "worlds'," for it is to me most aligned with the album's concept. So they test the worlds' divide, once again returning to the recurring message, the gray line (the "divide") between the world of dreams and the world as we know it. Then the woman returns to thoughts of her son ("brief (brief meaning he has left the dream, I guess. Probably what PRR means by "Gone! Left them (the family ) by!") encounter requiem for the son"). I don't really understand or recognize any deep, subliminal, or symbolic message in the chorus, simply that she loves her family and is saddened that they (the son forever, the husband until he comes home) are gone. Obviously, "stones throw view" refers to her close proximity to her family, however unrealistic the experience is (maybe not unrealistic--probably not the right word--maybe their family was unstoppable as a whole, and that is why she's so sad now that they are fragmented. It's just that she knows possibly that this can't be real (PRR would say, "Or is it?"), the facts that she knows to be true contradict her family's existence here). I'm unsure about many details in the second verse, but I get a general picture of mystery as to the culprit of the murder ("Fear surrounding lies"), visions (the voices in winter whispering) that don't make sense ("Where did the vision hide?"), and unclear motives ("The reason lessens what you done?"). Their leading the force and the earth's course part is unclear to me as well, but I think they are using the music here to help. With the mounting volume, one feels as though they are preparing for something to happen. Preparing for something big-- I don't know.

In the Realms of the Divine
Not quite sure about what the title here means, but I think the voices in winter have revealed the vision to the wife. You know, haven't you ever thought the wind (winter?) was speaking to you? or at least saying something? That might be what PRR is going for. Anyway, what do you do when you have a vision? Take it to a prophet (the divine? On second thought, that might be another stretch). So, apparently, she took her vision to the prophets, and it revealed to her some corruption that endangers her life, something that has only been in her darkest dreams ("I'm never meant to see"). So they flee the land. They can't disagree with the prophecy, and now they're "reeling backward." As they reflect on the prophecy and such, it begins to grow clearer, the web of lies and treachery.
A side note: the recurrence of the chorus from "Voices in Winter" to "In the Realms of the Divine" has been sped up and shortened lyrically. "As it (the vision and the accompanying prophecy) grows clearer. Love for you." The vision might be drawing them (the husband and wife) together, but I'm tempted (Are you thinking what I'm thinking?) to think that the wife is horrifiedly drawing suspicious conclusions of her husband, and this somewhat confirmed later. She is only putting on a show, it would seem. O, hints, hints, they're only hints! What are they talking about? Stones throw view... close proximity... close, like family kind of close? She can't neglect the possibility. Ah, but if I'm wrong, this could throw the rest of the album askew. Anybody else willing to risk being wrong? I am. Let's take that leap of faith.

[murphymurphy]

Sorry guys about the break in the reply. I was just thinking, "That would really suck if, for whatever reason, my browser shut down or whatever and I lost all this stuff that I have typed thus far."
Back to the decoding.

Bullitts Dominae
As "She leaves the world tonight" at the opening of Voices in Winter signaled that she was once again asleep, the same line at the end of Realms heralds her awakening from this dream. Whereas the first use referred to the physical world (her leaving the bed room), this most recent use alludes to her leaving the dream world. This brings us to the genesis of the next song, which is moderately easy to interpret. Although the singer of the "Give me a rest - Everything changes" verse is male, I would argue that the view for this verse is female, from the woman. The vision she had in her dream confirms her deepest, darkest suspicions of treachery. She needs time to sort out all the many things that have happened in the dream, to remember it all before she forgets it and has to fill in the gaps herself ("My brain distorts"). At "She gives..." the view switches to the husband. He is observing and completely aware of her investigations of him. "She gives them (? friends? or what?) a test on all the times that I've made trouble (testing him for anything that might give away some key evidence). "Her friends she talks (consulting her friends, searching for any clues)." I don't really get the chorus, but I get the sense (from both the intensity (or lack thereof) and lyrics) of calmness and peace, but it is obviously very superficial and deceptive -- there are suspicions, lies, deceit, and betrayal at work here. At "And as I ask them (friends) the same [questions]..." the view returns to the wife and describes the general chaos her mind is undergoing. Her "inosphere's collided!" In other words, her universe is shattering, her world is being turned upside down. Everything that she knew and believed she could trust in as fact is falling apart. At the next verse, the view again goes back to the husband, who describes her going-ons ("Gathers the flaws") and attempts to conceal her suspicions ("She follows and leaves unexpressed").

Arrival/The Intention Craft
I heard somewhere (sorry about the lack of citation! Thank you, Anonymous! lolz that the Intention Craft (bear in mind that this was loosely quoted from the band) is a machine that distorts meanings and basically crafts the intention from something, or rather, something from nothing, really. Can this be applied to the situation at hand? We'll have to find out.k
I love the second line here: "The night shine through closed eyes." It fits perfectly with the idea of the album. When asleep, the darkness comes to life (through dreams). Only through closed eyes does the night reveal its knowledge. To return, I believe here that the viewpoint goes back and forth between male and female (by the singers). He sees through her walls that conceal here suspicions, and she "sees the same," his lies about the murder. The chorus is fairly confusing, but the male says "Answer the alarms!" meaning that he is on the alert now. The wife at one point says "daylight grew." Once again, daylight in this song is not to be taken literally, but it is symbolic of knowledge and the realization of the plot behind the murder. "Light shines through on the sharpened knives" (male) refers to the dawning sun emerging over the horizon and catching knives ready to kill in the reflection of sunlight (think about it). "We climb confusion behind" (female): the wife ascending to the aforementioned place of knowledge and realization high in the (figurative) sky, beyond confusion. Now, I have no earthly idea what armagnac is (besides a French province that is famous for a really old French drink of the same name; yay, Wikipedia!), but these two lines are male, and he's speaking of his anxiety about her uncovering of the plot, her reaching the "solar highs" (the place of knowledge I just mentioned).

And then, it begins to click.

The reporter on the radio describes her emotion as the pieces of the puzzle begin to come together. And I am absolutely in love with the mantra that follows. "It takes the greatest of mind" to uncover the secrets "Behind the rhymes in the night / Inside the opal wide sky." "It's nearer dawn now than night" gives me chills every time I hear it, and of course it's symbolic dawn and night. Silent echoes of her son, the ashes of her rage catching alight. "Behind the face" is a reference to a line in Ambassadors; those faces that once brought them joy and peace have in the end all been lies, all right in front of her face... stones throw view. The knives are now hidden (disguised), but who holds them? The wife avenging her son? Or the husband attempting to save his own skin? Or are there other forces at work here?

He Tried to Show Them Magic!
Okay, here the essay gets the most risky it's ever gotten, mainly because it's so stinking vague! However, I think I have uncovered the truth. Here's what I think. "Sun's shadow" refers to darkness and nighttime; think about the rotation of the earth. Before I go any further, this song is told by the omniscient narrator if I'm not mistaken. I have not idea what greed has to do with his motives (yet) because it doesn't go into much detail about that as far as I can tell (I think that's just describing what is going through the wife's head right about now, kind of a stream of consciousness thing), but at "be free" he is referring to free his wife. From what though? Weak feelings grow inside him as he moves for her. Men of old, I'm not sure, might be dead heroes; he is referring to raising the dead. "Chase around me" (female) is keeping secrets from his wife. Why? Ah, but now we arrive at the finale, where everything is revealed (if I'm right). "He thieves from lovers. Freed!" Thieves what? Clicked yet? He "frees" people so that they may "rediscover gleam," so that they may "Scream!" for a brief moment, "Then recover." Where? The next life, the dream world. Now it makes sense. He moves to his wife -- "Inside her"... Now freed. Morning dawns.

Ambassadors Return
Now that I've gotten the message across, this next song is told from the wife's viewpoint. But that doesn't matter much. What matters is that now (and abruptly) the husband is dead as well. Whether by his own knife (freeing himself?) or by that of the states (the ambassadors? It's the only use for that line that I can come up with), there he lies, the "dead skin residue." She, from the second world, the dream world, sees the town, apparently deserted. Don't know why it's deserted if the "teased men of old" are there. If you're not already confused, get ready, because I'm just as confused as can be. I'm guessing he's teasing (deceiving) people into this (dream) world by "freeing" them. But it's not out of hate. Haven't you ever wanted to stay dreaming forever and never wake up? Clicked yet? He wants the best for his family. Hence, the "murder" of his wife and son. PRR would say, "Murder, or releasing?" Exact Colour says, "Always in love with her." And now that he's in the dream world, the surreal world where everything is bright and perfect, the only way to return to the world we live in is to dream. Slightly confusing, yes? Now here's where I get lost. What magic he shows "them" (see the disciples in In Aurelia) is showing them the connection between worlds. The husband calls to those he sees in the "dark third unknown" (the eight hours of "sleep" in dream world), saying "Free them (talking to his disciples about the rest of the world I guess). I'm so far gone (he of course no longer dwells on the earth as we know it)." As a departing message, he tells disciples to (I assume) kill their friends and themselves ("Save your place and find your friends"). Crazy, huh?

I still don't know what the men of old are and what they have to do with anything. Could he be trying to murder those men in the dream world so that they might be transported back to our world? Why would he do that? I don't know. This is why I think I might be flawed in my conclusions. But other songs on the bonus disc seem to be aligned with my story. Therefore, I will discuss those when I get the chance/time.

Well, I hope you've enjoyed (or at least been informed) this very tentative (drawing board version, if you will) and unsure journey into this world and the one(s) beyond. Please! If you have any corrections, comments, suggestions, or improvements to the story thus far, do not hesitate to post a reply. Thank you so much for taking the time to read these two monstrous posts, and furthermore, I hope it helped a little! I will try to discuss how the bonus songs are connected with the story in my next installment. See ya!

UPDATE: I think I must be off somewhere on my interpretations, mainly because some of the bonus songs don't quite fit or make sense with the story I've conjured up (or any one that I can conjure up for that matter). I'm not quite sure if both man and woman were killed now, and I think the "disciples" and "tamed men of old" have alot to do with the plot that I haven't yet discovered. However, The Twyncyn/Trembling Willows seems to agree with my story; that is a very important song; I suggest reading the lyrics on that one. I know alot of you probably don't have the second disc, so I'll post the lyrics to each song as soon as I have the time, and you guys can post your interpretations and comments here. Thanks!

[hyperborean]

While I haven't read every last word you wrote murphy, this just goes to show how wonderful this album is. If you were able to communicate 1/10th of all the thoughts you had pertaining to this particular thread of thought of yours I would be shocked - that is to say - I am sure that even though the blanket you're weaving is real "deep" it just isn't possible to communicate every last idea that is conjured up by this album.

And... that might be another theme of the album, the very nature and origin of all our ideas. How they come and go; how we may only chase them to their point of origin, but never get there; how we may pursue them to their logical conclusions, but never even approach their convergence. It is the drama of being, the drama of aeons, the drama of knowing... So, I'll take part in a more detailed discussion of your ideas soon enough.

[hyperborean]

Consider this when you listen to Nimos and Tambos:

Yin And Yang Of Becoming Human

all i've seen is all i dream
see animals and tambourines
and all i can hear is light

"Between yin and yang is a spiral. In biological development, the yin or centrifugal force became the vegetable kingdom and yang or centripetal force became the animal kingdom. Thus, any movement observed in plants. such as trees swaying in the wind, is more yin or passive. On the other hand, movements from the animal world, like a tiger pouncing on its prey, are more yang or active. The yang creatures ate yin plants or animals that were more yin than themselves. Within the evolution of the plant and animal kingdoms we see yin and yang rolling in and out, paving the way. At the extreme, yin will change to yang and vice versa."

feel the winds and wakes the hour
a morning kiss to have not far
and all i can see is night

"We begin our observation with an amorphous structure that saw food and made a temporary mouth, and then a temporary stomach, and finally an exit to see two major instincts that have continued throughout evolution in all animals, including human beings:
1) the instinct to expand (yin), to move into the world, and
2) the instinct to contract (yang) or stabilize, or to find security at home."

tree-lined in city colours
yeah he meant well
she glances wide

"We have a built-in equilibrium between these two. We like to feel secure and comfortable yet we seek freedom and adventure."

he left the room where I was
hide the light, hide the light
too much to dream last night
too much for waking eyes

Excerpt from "Macrobiotics in Motion: Yin and Yang in Moving Spirals" by Betsy Polatin.

[the dark fourth]

Wait, so did this Polatin person have PRR qotes in her science essay? Or did you just put them in for comparison? I'm afraid I'm not really getting the connection there...

Murphy! I love it mate! You should DEFINITELY show this to Jon, he'd be thrilled I'm not really sure about your theory that the whole album is about a man and woman...I think it's more of an exploration of dreams etc in general, without a specific storyline (if you want an album like that check out a band called Sidewaystown), although I admit there are quite a lot of references to "he" and "she".... Also, you've taken the US version of the album, which is potentially dodgy cos the UK one (with Exact Colour and Trembling Willows instead of Nimos and Intention Craft) came out first and so is probably the intended version....

There's lots that I definitely agree with though. The "I'm so far gone" bit at the end of album has got to be the speaker drifting off into the dreamworld forever, like Jon's hero Nerval in his book Aurelia. I get shivers from the nearer dawn now than night line too!

It really is great how much inspiration this album can generate, isn't it?

[hyperborean]

No no no, Polatin wrote that book in the 1970's. That's why I opened and closed the quotes for each excerpt.

[blondeambassador]

Ha, I think Jon would be absolutely stunned by that reading of the album...in a good way, of course. I mean, if we bear in mind the timescale the tracks were written over and the fact that it's been released with two different tracklistings, I can't believe that it was composed as a concept album- more, as everyone has said, an album beased around certain ideas and themes.

But hey, I'm a literature student, I'm all for reading into things and spend my life putting words into author's mouths that I'm pretty sure they hadn't intended to be there!! I'm also very impressed murphy, that must have taken some real time and effort...and of course, some serious listening, which isn't exactly a hardship!

[ryan]

May 18, 2008 18:09:36 GMT the dark fourth said:

Also, you've taken the US version of the album, which is potentially dodgy cos the UK one (with Exact Colour and Trembling Willows instead of Nimos and Intention Craft) came out first and so is probably the intended version

Actually I seem to recal the US/Europe one is the intended track list. It wouls have been that but Sony wanted an EP out first, so They (PRR or Sony, not sure) wanted to change a couple of the tunes to make up (Nimos had been on a single as well) so people weren't buying exactly the same tracks hence the two newer ones. I think Willows is the newest track on the album. I remember it going on myspace and being debuted at the Barfly.

[murphymurphy]

I seem to remember something of the same, about somebody rushing for PRR to release this album. Hence the coming of the UK version. But that's not all to diminish your argument, Dark Fourth. The "UK songs" (which are on the bonus disc, of course) should definitely not be ignored, and neither should the US version's songs. Like I said, I will try to discuss these UK songs, as they pretty obviously have a relation to the rest of the album, lol. I'm not quite sure about how the Exact Colour works, but The Twyncyn/Trembling Willows, if you look closely, has a huge part to play in the story of the album (or at least my version), from running 'round the twyncyn (what is that?) past the dead to meeting their lost son face to face once again. I'll get to it eventually.
Also, I would absolutely LOVE to see what the band's opinion on this story is, even it's bluntly telling me that I'm completely off. I would love to hear from them. Is there any way to contact them besides facebook? I'm sort of new to this forum, so I don't quite know the odds and ends yet.

[Nikos]

The band have a myspace account. pretty sure you can contact them through that.

they all have personal Myspaces, but I think they like to keep them that way.

so yeah, the band myspace is your best bet.