Should Victorious Cupid be included on Album 2?

[Lawrie]

Just took a wee glance at the PRR Last.fm page, and one of the user comments on there gave me pause. After a user in the USA had made a comment hoping that The Twyncyn/Trembling Willows would come out on Album 2 in the USA (due to it not being on the US version of The Dark Third), some other chap (Victo_prog) said that the only tracks that were guaranteed to be on Album 2 were Deus Ex Machina and Victorious Cupid.

Now, I'm fairly confident that this Victo_prog doesn't speak with any authority about what will or won't be on Album 2 (since he doesn't seem to be associated with/have any close ties to the band), but it did raise the possibility that VC might stand a chance of appearing on Album 2. I hadn't ever really thought of this possibility before, blindingly obvious though it may be. And the truth of the matter is that we just don't know one way or the other if VC will be included on Album 2: we might believe that it will be on there or that it won't be, but there is no evidence to date that supports either position.

So my question is: how would you feel about VC appearing on Album 2? Would you prefer it to be on there or not?

My own take on it is that I will be pretty disappointed if Victorious Cupid makes Album 2. Not because I don't like the song (I do), but because it will be revisiting the bad old days of PRR releasing the same song (on various different releases) many times over. We've already had VC as the free Myspace release (with a proper sleeve if you were able to get to any of the gigs at the time), and also as the single/EP release on ORG. Basically, it's an old-ish song now and it has been released twice already, so if it appears on Album 2 then it is just taking up the place of a newer song that we haven't heard a hundred times before.

If any of the band drop by this thread, I'd urge them not to put Victorious Cupid on the next album so as to not alienate some of the non-hardcore sections of their fanbase. While most of us who post on here will gladly run out to buy Album 2 regardless of whether VC appears on it or not, I have friends who were casually into PRR when I lent them my Apprentice Of The Universe and The Bright Ambassadors Of Morning singles. A couple of them bought Cautionary Tales on the back of hearing those, but upon finding out that TBAOM was included *again* on The Dark Third, they've since turned off the band and are unlikely to re-investigate them in a hurry. NOTE - I know that the repeating of material from CTFTB on to The Dark Third was not primarily the band's choice/fault, and that Sony were largely responsible for the multiple releases of the same material, but now that PRR are no longer with Sony they should really try and avoid the mistakes that Sony made in the past, IMO.

So, in short, a big fat "No" to Victorious Cupid being on the new album for me.

[the dark fourth]

I would be AMAZED if it was on the new album. After hearing Deus and Gloaming, it just wouldn't fit the new style. So no from me too.

[ryan]

I assumed it would be, i'd be suprised otherwise to be honest.

[Lawrie]

Jun 11, 2008 19:08:57 GMT ryan said:

I assumed it would be, i'd be suprised otherwise to be honest.

Would you want it on there though, Ryan? Just interested to see the consensus of how people feel on this one, even though we don't have any say as to whether it will or not.

[hyperborean]

It's a single, a b-side - a great song! - but it would sound odd hearing this old song with a bunch of new ones. That would be aesthetically displeasing, I think. I love the song though, it just feels like PRR had one more "Dark Third" track in them and they just had to get it out before they forgot about it. So, I say no, thank you.

[Nikos]

it will be on album 2.

[Lawrie]

Jun 11, 2008 20:09:25 GMT Nikos said:

it will be on album 2.

Cheers NM.

Right, looks like the poll element to this is a bit redundant then if VC will be on Album 2. Don't think it's an especially good idea myself, but still eagerly awaiting the second album nonetheless.

[admin]

Meh, just because we know it will be there, I see no reason not to discuss how people feel about this.

[the dark fourth]

Agreed. I almost never critizise the band, indeed I've been accused repeatedly of being too typically a naive fanboy...but this really is a worrying decision for me, and I think its fair that the band take some flak. Much as I love the song, I simply don't see how this track will work with the new album. It doesn't seem like a step forward at all. It raises the possibility that other tracks will be more like the dark third and less like the promising sound of Deus and Gloaming. I think this is the first upsetting piece of PRR news I've heard in a very long time...though equally I'm prepared to acknowledge the other less critical points of view that have been aired.

[Lawrie]

It's not so much the style of the song that leads me to think it's a bad idea: I won't be complaining if there's stuff that sounds like 'Dark Third material' on Album 2. What I'm not too keen on is the fact that Victorious Cupid feels excessively old now, and (IMO, I must stress) it feels like they've flogged the song to death.

It's not the money aspect that bothers me - anyone who owns VC in all its incarnations will only have paid for it on the ORG single and on Album 2, fair enough. But it appearing on Album 2 just gives me the feeling that the band are a little short on ideas for new songs: whether that's being fair on them or not I don't know, since we haven't heard everything that goes on in the studio, but that's the perception I get, fair or not. I'd much prefer a 'new' song in its place on Album 2, I find it hard to get excited about a song that I will have already heard and been singing along to for the best part of 18 months (assuming an autumn release of Album 2 - it could be the best part of 2 years if the album is delayed till next year!).

Hopefully I haven't come across like I'm having a massive rant there, because that's not my intention (especially as I don't know what's going on behind the scenes and exactly what else will await us on Album 2), but I am disappointed with the decision. Hopefully PRR will offset this with some 'new' B-sides or something (in the same way that Sound Of Free or Asleep Under Eiderdown felt 'new' with The Intention Craft single, albeit I think they were both Sunset Sound tracks maybe?).

[blondeambassador]

To be honest, while until I hear the album as a whole I can't say whether or not VC will actually fit in to the sound, as others have said, I did always expect it to be there. It was a single, that hasn't been on an album yet and usual logic is that is will therefore be on the forthcoming album. I know it does feel old but I guess I just didnt expect anything different.

[ryan]

this is what i wrote else where. Depends if it fits. If the band have a place for it then yeah, a nice little rocker might be good in there somewhere, if it'll be out of place then no I'll live without it.
As for buying it twice, well you have to expect the lead track off a single will be on the eventual album.

Also, as far as I remember there are only two tracks that've only been released once, Borgons Vor and Golden Clothes, and theres an old demo of Vor. It's to be expected!

[Lawrie]

It's odd, BA, but I had the complete opposite expectation to you.

Regardless of whether I like the idea of VC being on Album 2 or not, the fact that it came so soon after The Dark Third and obviously so long before Album 2 was likely to come out (I think we all knew Album 2 would be a while off when VC was first released in early 2007) meant that I thought it was a cert to be one of those great singles that never appear on an album, like Ash's "A Life Less Ordinary" or R.E.M.'s "The Great Beyond" or something. Just seemed a classic case of a song being a long way distant between two different albums to me, at the time. I hadn't even considered it a contender for Album 2 until I saw that comment on the Last.fm page that I mentioned. Just goes to show how much of a twit I can be, I guess! ;D

[blondeambassador]

Nah...of course it doesn't make you a twit, its just a difference of opinion...a PRR track takes a long time, I would guess alot longer than your average, between writing, recording and becoming a finished product and I suppose that was my main reason for thinking they would keep it, it's taking them long enough to get around to album 2 as it is. They sometimes work on individual tracks for weeks on end and the album is taking long enough to get done as it is. As I said, as long as it fits, then all well and good, I just hope it isn't tacked onto the end of an electro monster!

[the dark fourth]

Well exactly. It wouldn't fit after an electro song (or "monster" if you prefer!) which means they'll have to have some other similar tracks on the album. While I doubt not that all the tracks will be very cool, I'm starting to worry about whether they'll be a step forward....