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Post by ryan on Dec 10, 2008 22:00:44 GMT
You're right, I'm blanketing them. All three of the videos I've made have performance elements in fact.
But The Intention Craft just had the band look awkward in front of a cheesy backdrop. It was grim.
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Post by isador21 on Dec 10, 2008 22:09:14 GMT
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Post by ryan on Dec 10, 2008 22:11:58 GMT
You're misunderstanding what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about promo videos, mimed performances shot for youtube/mtv etc.
It would amazingly stupid of me to write off live videos as rubbish, seeing as that's what I make.
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Post by Lawrie on Dec 10, 2008 22:13:04 GMT
You says wrong. Performance videos are so pointless. It's a massively expensive waste of time. No no no no no no no! Performance videos are good (apologies I can't think of a better adjective here, but I'm struggling for something better than 'decent' and not quite as congratulatory as 'great') providing they haven't been mucked up... which isn't impossible to do, I concede. Show Band X looking cool while playing Song Y: people will have some reasonably entertaining visuals that don't distract them from whether or not they like the song or not. Job done: you don't get the highs of an unusual/quirky video garnering huge interest in a mediocre song (like that people-on-treadmills video by those no-marks whose average-ness has managed to scrub my memory clear of their names), but you're less likely to run the risk of an excellent song being overshadowed by a poor/uninteresting video... *cough* Ambassadors! *cough* I admit it's not original or inspired to do a performance video, but it often works very well and provides some decent visuals to go with great music. That's my take on videos, anyway, for the Zimbabwean dollar it's worth... BAOM didn't work because it was just a visual really, not a proper video. Yup, can't disagree with that. *Generalisation alert!* Some performance videos can be superb, other can be boring, pointless and whatever other adjective you'd care to describe them as. Just depends how good it is. I really like the Int Craft video, the kalaediscope thing works really well and I think it's trippy enough to make it feel more like an experience video than a performance video. Very much agree with all of that... until you mentioned 'experience video' when my pasty, sun-deprived face did a  impression! But aside from not having a clue what the last part of the last sentence means, I'm totally with you on the bolded part. |
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Post by the dark fourth on Dec 10, 2008 22:18:48 GMT
I don't even understand what I'm on about half the time...just ignore those bits...
But you have to admitt OK-Go was cool for what it's worth. No one's saying the music is any good, but you have to respect a band that can take so long to create and master a ridiculous skit and do it in one take.
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Post by ryan on Dec 10, 2008 22:23:00 GMT
One of my favourite performance videos: uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AXhH3IhVw1wIt's lit nicely, shot well, and edited brilliantly. I like Oceansize one for Unfamiliar for the same reasons really (apart from the 'grainy' effect put over it), although I was part of the camera crew we were heavily directed and I had no further involvement than that. My issue with the PRR one is first, the blue screen thing is crap. It's been done, and it was shit then. Second, the band look awkward miming in those long shots. Last, it's boringly shot and edited, it does the song no favours. My biggest issue, is that it's easy to make it look shit. If you're willing to spend money then why not do something interesting with it? I've done one video that was flat out performance by the way, but we filmed the band play to an audience to keep the same passion and intensity. It meant we didn't have those horrible, horrible 'sing into the camera' shots. |
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Post by Lawrie on Dec 10, 2008 22:26:13 GMT
I don't even understand what I'm on about half the time...just ignore those bits... But you have to admitt OK-Go was cool for what it's worth. No one's saying the music is any good, but you have to respect a band that can take so long to create and master a ridiculous skit and do it in one take. Yeah, that was what I meant really. An excellently executed, interesting video that was so good that it attracted far more attention than the bland song it was promoting deserved. Not knocking the video at all, rather making the point that a great video can do wonders for a mediocre song... although the thrust of my argument was that these boys are more of a rarity, and if you have a decent song to promote, the way to go if you want to play the percentages and choose an option with the best chance of not-sucking is to go with a performance video. Not by any means a hard-and-fast rule, but you've got the greatest probability of a reasonable result. IMO, of course.  |
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Post by Lawrie on Dec 10, 2008 22:30:27 GMT
One of my favourite performance videos: uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AXhH3IhVw1wIt's lit nicely, shot well, and edited brilliantly. I like Oceansize one for Unfamiliar for the same reasons really (apart from the 'grainy' effect put over it), although I was part of the camera crew we were heavily directed and I had no further involvement than that. My issue with the PRR one is first, the blue screen thing is crap. It's been done, and it was shit then. Second, the band look awkward miming in those long shots. Last, it's boringly shot and edited, it does the song no favours.My biggest issue, is that it's easy to make it look shit. If you're willing to spend money then why not do something interesting with it? I've done one video that was flat out performance by the way, but we filmed the band play to an audience to keep the same passion and intensity. It meant we didn't have those horrible, horrible 'sing into the camera' shots. Yeah, I don't think we disagree too much on the fundamental arguments here. It's mainly the bit in red that I disagree with you on: in the isolated case of TIC video, I think it was an entertaining and energetic video; appropriate for the song and doing it justice. You don't, and that's perfectly cool, just like we all have our own favourite PRR track etc. |
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Post by ryan on Dec 10, 2008 22:30:40 GMT
The treadmill one was the second they did. The first was just a dance in their back garden, again done in one shot. The reason they did it was that the record label wouldn't give them any money to make a proper video, so they did that and put it on youtube. The treadmills was an obvious attempt to trump that.
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Post by the dark fourth on Dec 10, 2008 22:35:27 GMT
The garden one is just as good actually. For sheer silliness and budgetting.
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Post by ryan on Dec 10, 2008 22:37:44 GMT
My issue with the PRR one is first, the blue screen thing is crap. It's been done, and it was shit then. Second, the band look awkward miming in those long shots. Last, it's boringly shot and edited, it does the song no favours. Yeah, I don't think we disagree too much on the fundamental arguments here. It's mainly the bit in red that I disagree with you on: in the isolated case of TIC video, I think it was an entertaining and energetic video; appropriate for the song and doing it justice. You don't, and that's perfectly cool, just like we all have our own favourite PRR track etc. Of course, this all comes down to opinion at the end of the day. If we all agreed, or worse didn't have these discussions, the board would be pretty dull. EDIT: in fact, you know what I think it is. I think that it was one of those things done to develop the band as some new prog outfit, to appeal to fans of all those '70s bands. It totally has that feel to it. I think (hope) we'll see, and have been seeing, a move away from that as the band develops into something else. |
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Post by the dark fourth on Dec 10, 2008 22:48:40 GMT
Yes, PRR are 'progressing' away from 'progressive' music. Brilliant.
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Post by ryan on Dec 10, 2008 22:53:46 GMT
I'm making the distinction between 'prog', the genre that bands like Pink Floyd, Yes, King Crimson etc. get lumped in as, and that PRR were heralded as saving, and 'progressive'.
I also never used the word 'progressive'.
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Post by blondeambassador on Dec 11, 2008 13:40:47 GMT
On the video note...I know very few people who watch music videos these days anyway, I'm not even sure if it's justifiable to spend a bands money on them really anymore...maybe thats just me and my friends though.
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Post by ryan on Dec 11, 2008 14:14:54 GMT
I think it's a weird one. They can still make a difference to the right band. You also have to think outside traditional outlets, it's all about the internet now. It's important to have a youtube presence for example.
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impression! But aside from not having a clue what the last part of the last sentence means, I'm totally with you on the bolded part.
