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Post by harkins1 on Jan 14, 2008 0:19:57 GMT
i like a man who will "defend his position". even when all the signs point to him being an absolute retard.
"Muse, Radiohead, Floyd and even the mighty Brian Wilson don't come close"
get a life.
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Post by harkins1 on Jan 14, 2008 0:20:48 GMT
and perhaps it might be wise to actually LISTEN to the aforementioned bands.
goodness, the internet makes me angry sometimes.
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Post by blondeambassador on Jan 14, 2008 1:51:09 GMT
And yet another thread descends into bickering...
Surely everyone's defintion of genius is their own though- I mean, this isn't the sitting on the fence answer but the way I see it is, if philosophers etc can't agree on what it means to be a genius, then if someone has done something that is revolutionary or amazing to you, then in your eyes they may well be a genius...
I dunno, it's just one of those abstract terms that you can't define, so therefore while you can disagree with him, he's not necessarily wrong.
(ps, I certainly agree PRR are better than Muse, in my eyes, Matt Bellamy is certainly not a genius...ok, so maybe not the other two...but all a game of opinions.)
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Post by ryan on Jan 14, 2008 12:00:52 GMT
Ha, this thread is fantastic.
Harkens you do make me laugh.
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Post by harkins1 on Jan 14, 2008 12:49:33 GMT
Look my beef is with lines like this - "There are few true ginuses in the world, but if Jon isn't one of them, then I don't know who is."......."That's not to put Chloe or the others down....they're all geniuses in their own way of course..." You're handing the "genius" handle round like sodding milky bars! so therefore while you can disagree with him, he's not necessarily wrong. Yes he is BA. sorry. |
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Post by smudger on Jan 14, 2008 12:53:45 GMT
"Jon is NOT Brian Wilson...last I checked he was still verging on sane, for a start!" There are few true ginuses in the world, but if Jon isn't one of them, then I don't know who is. Btw, just to clarify: I wasn't calling him a plagiarist. I think his fantastic use of references, from 60's harmonisers to early 19th century romantic poets is one of his greatest abilities. DF, what planet are you on? To call Jon a genius is to devalue the real geniuses (yes that is the correct plural) of this world. "an exceptional natural capacity of intellect, especially as shown in creative and original work in science, art, music" "Bright Ambassadors of Morning".....original, huh? Is it me, or does anyone else fail to see any similarity or influence of either Pink Floyd or the Beach Boys in any of the songs? |
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Post by smudger on Jan 14, 2008 13:00:02 GMT
Why don't we change the grading system of the board from 'Ambassador' to 'Genius'?
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Post by Lawrie on Jan 14, 2008 13:14:01 GMT
And yet another thread descends into bickering... Surely everyone's defintion of genius is their own though- I mean, this isn't the sitting on the fence answer but the way I see it is, if philosophers etc can't agree on what it means to be a genius, then if someone has done something that is revolutionary or amazing to you, then in your eyes they may well be a genius... I dunno, it's just one of those abstract terms that you can't define, so therefore while you can disagree with him, he's not necessarily wrong. I'd go with that argument, although my personal position is that no members of PRR qualify for genius status at the moment. You certainly couldn't argue them being geniuses on a technical musical skills basis (i.e. geniuses like Hendrix etc). And (IMO) while they might go on to make a work of genius in the future (possible without being a genius technical musician - e.g. OK Computer etc), The Dark Third - while being very, VERY good - doesn't qualify as a work of genius in my book. Who knows, PRR might well make something as good as an OK Computer or an Origin Of Symmetry in time, but for the moment I'm firmly in the "no" camp as things stand. (ps, I certainly agree PRR are better than Muse, in my eyes, Matt Bellamy is certainly not a genius...ok, so maybe not the other two...but all a game of opinions.) Fair play, BA, no problem with liking PRR more than Muse, but if Matt Bellamy as an individual is not a genius in your eyes then your eyes need testing!  ;D For me, he is a nailed on musical genius, even if people don't agree with my opinion that Origin Of Symmetry and Black Holes & Revelations are two works of genius. The standard of the man's guitar playing AND his piano playing AND his amazing voice mean that he's a unequivocal musical genius to me: he may not be the very best guitarist in the world, nor the very best pianist, nor the very best vocalist, but the fact that he's in the ball park of the greats in all THREE categories gives him genius status in my book. ...but as you say, it's all about opinions, even if yours are wrong...  |
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Post by ryan on Jan 14, 2008 22:12:33 GMT
You're handing the "genius" handle round like sodding milky bars. Actually laughed out loud! Also, OK Computer really isn't that good and OOS really suffers at the end |
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Post by the dark fourth on Jan 14, 2008 22:22:58 GMT
Hmmm....well well welly well. I'd never have thought praise for Jon Courtney on A PRR FAN'S FORUM could come up against such staunch opposition. Amazing. Having been told to "get a life" and accused of "being an absolute retard", after meerly voicing an opinion IN FAVOUR of the forum's raison d'etre, I guess I'm gonna be doing a lot of rethinking...
I cannot believe that someone wrote "Is it me, or does anyone else fail to see any similarity or influence of either Pink Floyd or the Beach Boys in any of the songs?" This is a truly startling statement, as if the obvious influences of such bands degraded or somehow made PRR's work UNORIGINAL!?!? I would like anyone to name me a band that sounds like PRR, because I've been looking for one for a long time and there is only one conclusion: PRR are unique. Bits sound like Floyd (though their music was nowhere near so rich), some of the harmonies sound like the Beach Boys (though they didn't even use distortion), some of the rockier riffs are vaguely Bellamyesque (though his music is unimaginative by comparison), and I guess some of the eletronics might possibly recall Radiohead, though barely. Lyrics are nicked from all over the place, but only about 10% of them at the most. No one musically has ever achieved what these guys have achieved. Of course, there are other fantastic bands, some of whose members may well be geniuses. But that doesn't make PRR's stuff any worse quality-wise. F*** me it's a friggin matter of opinion anyways what am I talking about....
So actually I'm not handing out the label to anyone who takes my fancy, I'm applying it to the man who is responsible for most of the creative imput in a band very dear to my heart. One man.
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Post by Lawrie on Jan 14, 2008 23:14:57 GMT
Also, OK Computer really isn't that good and OOS really suffers at the end There's wrong and there's wrong and then there's this! OK Computer *is* the best album ever made, and the very end of Origin Of Symmetry (i.e. Megalomania) is a song so good that if it played football it would be called Dimitar Berbatov! You, sir, are a buffoon! ;D |
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Post by harkins1 on Jan 14, 2008 23:24:46 GMT
what? megalomania would have a sulk if it didn't get an outing in every muse set?  |
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Post by Lawrie on Jan 14, 2008 23:29:28 GMT
Hmmm....well well welly well. I'd never have thought praise for Jon Courtney on A PRR FAN'S FORUM could come up against such staunch opposition. Amazing. Having been told to "get a life" and accused of "being an absolute retard", after meerly voicing an opinion IN FAVOUR of the forum's raison d'etre, I guess I'm gonna be doing a lot of rethinking... I cannot believe that someone wrote "Is it me, or does anyone else fail to see any similarity or influence of either Pink Floyd or the Beach Boys in any of the songs?" This is a truly startling statement, as if the obvious influences of such bands degraded or somehow made PRR's work UNORIGINAL!?!? I would like anyone to name me a band that sounds like PRR, because I've been looking for one for a long time and there is only one conclusion: PRR are unique. Bits sound like Floyd (though their music was nowhere near so rich), some of the harmonies sound like the Beach Boys (though they didn't even use distortion), some of the rockier riffs are vaguely Bellamyesque (though his music is unimaginative by comparison), and I guess some of the eletronics might possibly recall Radiohead, though barely. Lyrics are nicked from all over the place, but only about 10% of them at the most. No one musically has ever achieved what these guys have achieved. Of course, there are other fantastic bands, some of whose members may well be geniuses. But that doesn't make PRR's stuff any worse quality-wise. F*** me it's a friggin matter of opinion anyways what am I talking about.... So actually I'm not handing out the label to anyone who takes my fancy, I'm applying it to the man who is responsible for most of the creative imput in a band very dear to my heart. One man. TDF, I'd never insult you for thinking Jon is a genius, but I can't agree with that opinion [which, as you correctly point out, is all that we're all discussing here]. I couldn't see eye-to-eye with anyone who thinks that any of the band are geniuses on a technical musical skills level - there's just nobody (past or present) in PRR who is a Matt Bellamy/Jimmy Hendrix/Omar Rodriguez-Lopez/[take your pick of other insanely talented musicians]. I'd be amazed if even the most ardent PRR fan (and I like to think I qualify as one) would argue that particular shout. They are all at worst competent and at best good-to-great musicians, but none of them are technical geniuses with their particular instrument(s). Therefore, the only claim to genius you could lay at any of PRR's doors is if they produce a 'genius' piece of work, i.e. album. This is where opinions kick in, and I respect anyone who thinks The Dark Third is a work of genius, but I don't agree with that opinion myself. I certainly think it is a very, very good album, and not too far away from being worthy of genius status, but (in any of the releases - UK, USA, later European) in my opinion there are still a few songs/parts of songs that are not quite perfect and could do with tightening up or reworking. Bits of Aeropause and the first half of Voices In Winter/In The Realms Of The Divine come to mind, off the top of my head. However, that is just my opinion, and as I said I have no problem with anyone who thinks that The Dark Third is an album that could be labelled as genius. I also think that PRR have got a great shot of making a 'perfect' [IMO] album in the future, and so I'd say that they're a band who I wouldn't bet against me calling geniuses in years to come. But for me, no - they're not there *yet*. |
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Post by Lawrie on Jan 14, 2008 23:30:58 GMT
what? megalomania would have a sulk if it didn't get an outing in every muse set? *applauds harkins1 for a well observed point* ;D |
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Post by harkins1 on Jan 14, 2008 23:35:56 GMT
go to bed lawrie.
nothing to see here.
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;D For me, he is a nailed on musical genius, even if people don't agree with my opinion that Origin Of Symmetry and Black Holes & Revelations are two works of genius. The standard of the man's guitar playing AND his piano playing AND his amazing voice mean that he's a unequivocal musical genius to me: he may not be the very best guitarist in the world, nor the very best pianist, nor the very best vocalist, but the fact that he's in the ball park of the greats in all THREE categories gives him genius status in my book.
